Curse

Iuris · May 06, 2011, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Keys and locks added to the list.

pvp joda · May 06, 2011, 01:46 PM // 13:46

elite skills removed a lot of my money out of the game

Nyta · May 06, 2011, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Maybe they could consider adding more gift boxes similar to the boardwalk prize boxes in that you can get them with gold, but designed a little more like Nick's gifts and the royal gifts, in that they have a really small chance of giving you various rare things.

zwei2stein · May 06, 2011, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvp joda

elite skills removed a lot of my money out of the game

Add title for having ALL skills unlocked on single character. 1mil per title hunter would be sunk pretty much overnight.

Surgo · May 06, 2011, 02:19 PM // 14:19

I don't quite understand how anyone can think there's not enough in the way of gold sinks when there's actually been deflation over the past while.

There also seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding with material and other traders, who actually have their own stock that slowly recharges.

Iuris · May 06, 2011, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgo

I don't quite understand how anyone can think there's not enough in the way of gold sinks when there's actually been deflation over the past while.

No. There has been a market saturation, which left only the rarest items marketable at all.

Surgo · May 06, 2011, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

No. There has been a market saturation, which left only the rarest items marketable at all.

Why, would when I start talking about apples, you jump in and go: "but we need to know this about oranges!".

You'll note that I did not speculate on a reason for deflation, only noted the fact that deflation is happening. That is because the reason it is happening does not matter, only the fact that it is happening. And why, if deflation is already happening, would you be insistent about implementing some new things that would make deflation happen even faster?

If you think market saturation is a problem, find a solution that addresses that problem. Don't try to apply a fix to an unrelated (or at least uncausative) issue and expect it to make the problem you just stated go away.

thedarkmarine · May 06, 2011, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Since we like font tags.

There is no over-inflation.
Thus, GW has ENOUGH gold sinks.

Irrelevant is the fact thatALL NPC traders/merchants are gold sinks.

Saldonus Darkholme · May 06, 2011, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarkmarine

Since we like font tags.

There is no over-inflation.
Thus, GW has ENOUGH gold sinks.

Irrelevant is the fact thatALL NPC traders/merchants are gold sinks.

Sorry, I disagree. I have had over 500K (Usually float between 700-800K) for at least 2 years now. Whenever I get to around 800-900K, I buy 100 lockpicks, a new armor set, or give it to my wife for HER titles. Once I max my TH title, I won't buy near as many lockpicks.

Now, you COULD say, "Then buy minis or rare weapons from players". However, those are not gold sinks: that is moving gold from one account to another.

Also, merchants are only gold sinks when you buy something from them. However, they generate much more gold than they remove from the game.

As the game gets older, there is going to be a need to do something about the gold floating in the economy. Otherwise, it becomes as worthless as exp. points!

Surgo · May 06, 2011, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saldonus Darkholme

Sorry, I disagree. I have had over 500K (Usually float between 700-800K) for at least 2 years now. Whenever I get to around 800-900K, I buy 100 lockpicks, a new armor set, or give it to my wife for HER titles. Once I max my TH title, I won't buy near as many lockpicks.

Now, you COULD say, "Then buy minis or rare weapons from players". However, those are not gold sinks: that is moving gold from one account to another.

Also, merchants are only gold sinks when you buy something from them. However, they generate much more gold than they remove from the game.

As the game gets older, there is going to be a need to do something about the gold floating in the economy. Otherwise, it becomes as worthless as exp. points!

Only, right now, we're in deflation. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist!

Improvavel · May 06, 2011, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgo

Only, right now, we're in deflation. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist!

Deflation of what?

Of things that aren't traded in gold/platinum? Of items that can keep being produced and there are more available with each day?

Saldonus Darkholme · May 06, 2011, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgo

Only, right now, we're in deflation. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist!

Sorry, I'm not trying to solve ANYTHING. What the market is or isn't in is immaterial: Those are prices for items that players are buying/selling. The developers do not NEED to get involved in THAT market: it is entirely player-generated. Gold sinks are things the delelopers place in the game to REMOVE gold from the game. I'm not saying lack of gold sinks is a problem, per se. I AM saying it would be nice to have other things to spend the money ON.

dagrdagaz · May 06, 2011, 06:34 PM // 18:34

A broken Lockpick disappears from the game yes, but most or all Lockpicks that r sold by players r dropped ones.
If i buy Lockpicks, gold changes player, doesnt disappear.
That u may break a lockpick is not relevant to that.
So, i am thinking buying lockpicks is NOT a gold sick.
(Unless u buy them in large quantities from the merchant....)

Wanted to mention, that i doubt (but correct me if wrong) that craftable summoning stones is really a gold sink.
Technically yes, BUT they cost 1k, 1 skill point and craft mats.
To me that does NOT look appealing, even after the summoning sickness decrease.
To make them more appealing and a gold sink, they should only have a gold requirement.
Obviously, the price should be high enough to be a usefull money sink, but also low enough to be appealing.

An idea for a money sink; not free costumes, but (other) ones that u can buy with ingame gold.

Ailina · May 06, 2011, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgo

There also seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding with material and other traders, who actually have their own stock that slowly recharges.

Um, nope. Sorry, but that's simply not true. Their stock comes from, and ONLY from, things that players sell to them. It does not "slowly recharge".

Arduin · May 06, 2011, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagrdagaz

A broken Lockpick disappears from the game yes, but most or all Lockpicks that r sold by players r dropped ones.

No. Ever seen people selling 100 lockpicks for 80k in Kamadan? Those are bought from these guys and sold for a tiny profit by the people who were able to buy them for 1,2k each.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagrdagaz

(Unless u buy them in large quantities from the merchant....)

Which is exactly what is happening.

majoho · May 06, 2011, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagrdagaz

A broken Lockpick disappears from the game yes, but most or all Lockpicks that r sold by players r dropped ones.
If i buy Lockpicks, gold changes player, doesnt disappear.
That u may break a lockpick is not relevant to that.
So, i am thinking buying lockpicks is NOT a gold sick.
(Unless u buy them in large quantities from the merchant....)

YES they are.

Just because you buy them from other players doesn't mean that everyone does.

For the most part Lockpicks ARE a goldsink.

dagrdagaz · May 06, 2011, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Aah, those merchants, forgot about them.

Yes, gold payed to those vanishes from the game.
Yep, good gold sink then.

Surgo · May 06, 2011, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Deflation of what?

Of things that aren't traded in gold/platinum? Of items that can keep being produced and there are more available with each day?

I use a basket of ectoplasm, armbraces, alcohol, sweets, and a few other items to track inflation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saldonus Darkholme

Sorry, I'm not trying to solve ANYTHING. What the market is or isn't in is immaterial: Those are prices for items that players are buying/selling. The developers do not NEED to get involved in THAT market: it is entirely player-generated. Gold sinks are things the delelopers place in the game to REMOVE gold from the game. I'm not saying lack of gold sinks is a problem, per se. I AM saying it would be nice to have other things to spend the money ON.

Yes, the whole point of a gold sink is to remove money from the game. What's the point of removing money from the game? If it isn't to provide downward pressure on prices, I don't see what the point is.

If you're just looking for more content (that's what I seem to be gathering), there are ways to do that that don't involve gold sinks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ailina

Um, nope. Sorry, but that's simply not true. Their stock comes from, and ONLY from, things that players sell to them. It does not "slowly recharge".

I guarantee you that more superior vigor runes get bought from the rune trader then get sold to it by players.

Iuris · May 06, 2011, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Do you actually have any calculations to support that thesis?

From my experience, prices do not go down so much as people simply see that what they have would be more of a hassle to sell to a player than to merchant and the result is that people simply don't sell things any more. Fewer and fewer items, or rather types of items, are offered for sale.

Also, we must remember to keep the relative value of gold in mind. We earn gold much more quickly these days due to the Zaishen, WiK bounties, Keiran missions and similar.

Surgo · May 06, 2011, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

Do you actually have any calculations to support that thesis?

I didn't keep track of specifics in an Excel spreadsheet if that's what your asking, but I do notice the mean.

4 months ago: armbrace ask attempts at 23e
Now: Attempts between 21e and 20e

4 months ago: Ecto sales hovering around 7.5k for one (easy to both buy and sell that), 13/100k.
1 month ago: Easy to buy 14/100k.
Now: Easy to buy down below 7k.
(Don't expect the < 7k price to stick, this is probably due to a sudden flood of ecto supply thanks to the past two weeks of events).

Alcohol/Sweets: No appreciable change as far as I can tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

From my experience, prices do not go down so much as people simply see that what they have would be more of a hassle to sell to a player than to merchant and the result is that people simply don't sell things any more. Fewer and fewer items, or rather types of items, are offered for sale.

This has to do with liquidity, not inflation or deflation, and is not really related to the supply of gold.